I hope own something like a G150 or G200 one day, but always wondered what goes into it. Airport storage? Insurance? Fuel? I hope not to look like a complete noob, but guess what I am haha :laugh:
unitix
To put it lightly, its all very expensive, especially for jets. It's said that for every hour in the air, a jet needs 3 hours of maintenance. I worked in a jet maintenance facility as my first job, and seeing the cost of repairs of the simplest parts is out of this world. But thats only one aspect of owning a jet. Your annual fixed cost will be paying all your pilots (~$200,000), crew training (~70,000), hangar (~50,000), insurance (~50,000), air craft maintenance (~25,000). And thats just your fixed cost.
You also have hourly costs for maintenance, which is anywhere around $700 an hour for APU/engine maintenance, and a bit less for airframe per hour, not to mention annual inspections. You also have a couple thousand per hour to pay for fuel, which holds, according to google, 2204 gallons. With jet fuel at about 5.90 per gallon right now thats $13k to fill her up. These are all rough figures but you get the jist.
Not to mention forking out the $10 million dollars to buy it in the first place.
You can partial own a jet which brings down costs, or just charter one. Or save millions and fly delta.
You also have hourly costs for maintenance, which is anywhere around $700 an hour for APU/engine maintenance, and a bit less for airframe per hour, not to mention annual inspections. You also have a couple thousand per hour to pay for fuel, which holds, according to google, 2204 gallons. With jet fuel at about 5.90 per gallon right now thats $13k to fill her up. These are all rough figures but you get the jist.
Not to mention forking out the $10 million dollars to buy it in the first place.
You can partial own a jet which brings down costs, or just charter one. Or save millions and fly delta.
You can't really think cost very much when flying private, it is extremely high (around $8-11 per mile assuming 200 annual hours in a super midsize jets like the G250). Unless you have a company that makes multi-million dollar decisions via short notice in-person meetings, need specific teams at an exact location in a short time, or have multiple 500 mile stops to make in a day, a private jet like the Gulfstream G150/G200 isn't really a realistic option. Flyinglakland did a fantastic job of some cost break downs. However when you get to the true point of purchasing a private jet, you will have a team of lawyers, accountants, brokers, and aircraft managers to help with the decision and who will handle the details.
Its a great dream, but you first should focus on a business that can get you to the point of considering a private jet as a business asset. They typically have many millions of revenue (not sure what the exact number is, but I'm sure its well north of $50 mil), also typically companies start to charter/fractional own before purchasing to see how the asset benefits the company.
Its a great dream, but you first should focus on a business that can get you to the point of considering a private jet as a business asset. They typically have many millions of revenue (not sure what the exact number is, but I'm sure its well north of $50 mil), also typically companies start to charter/fractional own before purchasing to see how the asset benefits the company.
Thanks for all the responses! My curiosity wasn't really stemming from a financial standpoint, as I am well aware of the millions. My questions more so were directed toward the actual ownership process. As I saw from the website posted above, there are companies that can take care alot of this, as I expected, which is awesome. It is a great dream, as you said, but will be a reality for me. Preowned G150's start at around 7 million, which I don't find to be obnoxiously expensive (even as a poor medical student who's launched several start ups! haha) But thanks can't wait for more input.
check out what2fly.com you can fly in a light jet (beech jet or citation cj1) for between $2.50/mile to $3.00/mile...We have actually been looking into this recently as we occasionally rent and our travel within our company has been streamlined as of late. Basically the process is like buying anything else but you have to have someone who manages the aircraft for you. Maintenance, Pilots, Scheduling. The biggest benefit is renting it out when you're not using it. The more you can get the aircraft in the air for others the less it's going to cost you to use it. However as stated above it is very rare that it can be worth the cost unless you are losing $6 to 7 figure digits when your key employees are using commercial air travel. I use it when I feel it's worth it to have the added convenience. Careful though..the first time you do it you won't ever want to travel commercial again
I just have to say how struck I am by the costs associated with owning aircraft, delineated by flyinglakland. That is no joke.
I forgot who was running the promotion but it was "put $1M on your sky card and get a free bentley CGT"
No matter how much money you have unless you are in the air as much as a normal person is in a car, id rent one vs even having one thought about maintenance or other hassles
No matter how much money you have unless you are in the air as much as a normal person is in a car, id rent one vs even having one thought about maintenance or other hassles
You from the research I've been doing in the past couple months, it is no doubt that I've ran into colleagues in the past that rented.
And man the quote "If it floats, flies, or f____, it's cheaper to rent..." couldn't be any more true lol..
And man the quote "If it floats, flies, or f____, it's cheaper to rent..." couldn't be any more true lol..
I own a humble 6-seat twin-engine piston plane - Piper Seneca ($150/hr on fuel alone), and have been flying for more than 10 years. It's not in the jet world, but I have some appreciation of the magnitude of costs involved.
Like exotic cars, the price tag of the plane itself is just the cost of entry. I think a rule of thumb is around 5-10% a year in operating costs. The big items with jets are the A/B/C/D/E/F/G inspections which are mandatory and come into play based on usage (ie. hours) and calendar time.
The following gives you some idea of the actual costs involved:
www.sijet.com/download/13Phase_Hawker800.pdf‎
The 800 is 1980 era, whereas the 800XP are late 90's and up. You can pick up a an 800XP starting at around $2m. The worst item in the maintenance lists is around $60K for every 5 years, but you would also be dropping $10K-20K every year or so along the way for the other items. Plus parts. Picking up a "bargain" used jet usually means the big maintenance item(s) have been deferred and are required right away.
Then there is fuel. The 800XP burns about 250 gal/hr (although it's usually specified in weight per hour but piston pilots deal with gal/hr). At $5.50/gal, you'd be looking at about $1500 per hour. So a typical 3-hour oneway trip would be $9000 for the round trip. This is why charter starts at around $3000/hr in order for them to make any money after overheads.
And as someone has pointed out, no one owns a jet unless they fly a lot (otherwise it makes even less financial sense). So to fly the minimum 100 hrs a year - fuel cost would be $150K per year.
Hangar storage at a full service FBO for my plane is $2K / month. For a small jet which takes up more space than mine, I would estimate $3K per month or about $40K per year.
So all in all, maintenance / fuel / hangar add up to around $200K per year. Throw in say part time contract pilot + FlightSafety recurrent training, you'd be up to $300K per year excluding insurance.
My figures are in-line with Flyinglakland's - mine are a bit on the low side but as they say YMMV.
$300K per year on a $2m jet seems high at 15%, but brand new the same jet costs quite a lot more, and maintenance and parts costs are really about the same on either brand-new or used jets. So the same $300K on a $8m brand-new jet would be more "acceptable".
There is no doubt that dabbling in aviation makes exotic car ownership seem like a bargain :lol:
Like exotic cars, the price tag of the plane itself is just the cost of entry. I think a rule of thumb is around 5-10% a year in operating costs. The big items with jets are the A/B/C/D/E/F/G inspections which are mandatory and come into play based on usage (ie. hours) and calendar time.
The following gives you some idea of the actual costs involved:
www.sijet.com/download/13Phase_Hawker800.pdf‎
The 800 is 1980 era, whereas the 800XP are late 90's and up. You can pick up a an 800XP starting at around $2m. The worst item in the maintenance lists is around $60K for every 5 years, but you would also be dropping $10K-20K every year or so along the way for the other items. Plus parts. Picking up a "bargain" used jet usually means the big maintenance item(s) have been deferred and are required right away.
Then there is fuel. The 800XP burns about 250 gal/hr (although it's usually specified in weight per hour but piston pilots deal with gal/hr). At $5.50/gal, you'd be looking at about $1500 per hour. So a typical 3-hour oneway trip would be $9000 for the round trip. This is why charter starts at around $3000/hr in order for them to make any money after overheads.
And as someone has pointed out, no one owns a jet unless they fly a lot (otherwise it makes even less financial sense). So to fly the minimum 100 hrs a year - fuel cost would be $150K per year.
Hangar storage at a full service FBO for my plane is $2K / month. For a small jet which takes up more space than mine, I would estimate $3K per month or about $40K per year.
So all in all, maintenance / fuel / hangar add up to around $200K per year. Throw in say part time contract pilot + FlightSafety recurrent training, you'd be up to $300K per year excluding insurance.
My figures are in-line with Flyinglakland's - mine are a bit on the low side but as they say YMMV.
$300K per year on a $2m jet seems high at 15%, but brand new the same jet costs quite a lot more, and maintenance and parts costs are really about the same on either brand-new or used jets. So the same $300K on a $8m brand-new jet would be more "acceptable".
There is no doubt that dabbling in aviation makes exotic car ownership seem like a bargain :lol:
BTW, all the jet card programs seem expensive on the surface - starting at $100K for 25 hrs (or $4K/hr). But once you look at the cost to run a jet for a year, $100K again seems like a bargain.
Comparing to the jet card programs, the breakeven point seems to be at about 75 hrs per year of usage based on my calculation above. This all makes sense to support the rule of thumb of 100 hr / year minimum in order to justify any kind of plane ownership - including mine =) If you don't fly at least 100 hr / year, you don't have to tie up capital in the plane (or pay interest), and you don't have to worry about surprises.
One of my dreams is to give away jet cards to friends and family. Talk about a perfect gift. One day ....
Comparing to the jet card programs, the breakeven point seems to be at about 75 hrs per year of usage based on my calculation above. This all makes sense to support the rule of thumb of 100 hr / year minimum in order to justify any kind of plane ownership - including mine =) If you don't fly at least 100 hr / year, you don't have to tie up capital in the plane (or pay interest), and you don't have to worry about surprises.
One of my dreams is to give away jet cards to friends and family. Talk about a perfect gift. One day ....
Legal costs associated with ownership are huge as well. Typically a company must be formed around the aircraft/flight department, and a host of certifications and filings need to be completed with the FAA etc. As previously mentioned a good accountant is also required to handle $20,000+ fuel bills at the pump.... Some FBO's don't accept credit cards, but all I can say is for those that do, if you ever needed to fly commercial you'd have no problems getting a first class ticket using credit card points/miles
Helicopters are definitely more fun. To me, fixed-wing is like skiing, whereas helicopter is like snowboarding. Snowboarding is somewhat "harder" because you only have one edge to work with at any given time vs 2 with skis (and hence the bigger wipe-outs). And there are very few transferable skills going from one to the other.
I have flown the Robinson R22 a number of times when I was trying to get my rotary rating - but I got side-tracked and it didn't happen.
I have flown the Robinson R22 a number of times when I was trying to get my rotary rating - but I got side-tracked and it didn't happen.
The only thing you have to watch for in the R22 is you can't get into a negative-G situation (ie. push the T-bar abruptly) or you'd get mast bumping, followed by disintegration of parts in the air =)
But the joy of hovering inches off the ground while busy manipulating the 3 input - priceless!
But the joy of hovering inches off the ground while busy manipulating the 3 input - priceless!
There is some great information posted here. I found it interesting that the OP wasn't concerned with the costs of owning the aircraft which is often a good reason people lose their aircraft/autos/homes. Rule of thumb is that just because you can afford to buy it, doesn't mean you can afford to keep it. And that is what is important.
Some aircraft cost as much as $3k - $6K an HOUR to operate in the air. Something to seriously consider.
I am wondering what the thoughts are on our article about this very subject. The Smart Way To Buy A Private JetFASTLANE Lifestyle Magazine | FASTLANE Lifestyle Magazine
There is so much expense that goes into owning a private jet, people are often better off just hiring them as needed otherwise a jet isn't much more than a hole in the sky you throw money into.
Some aircraft cost as much as $3k - $6K an HOUR to operate in the air. Something to seriously consider.
I am wondering what the thoughts are on our article about this very subject. The Smart Way To Buy A Private JetFASTLANE Lifestyle Magazine | FASTLANE Lifestyle Magazine
There is so much expense that goes into owning a private jet, people are often better off just hiring them as needed otherwise a jet isn't much more than a hole in the sky you throw money into.
For a lot of people, "hiring" is the best thing to do. Unless of course they go over the 75-100 hrs per year mark, in which case owning makes more sense.
At 100 hrs/yr, we're only talking about 8 hrs a month or so. That could easily be a 4-hour oneway trip plus return. Whether it's for business people getting to meetings, athletes getting to sporting events, etc, there are indeed great reasons to own. Especially if these meetings etc generate revenue on their own and add to the top line.
At 100 hrs/yr, we're only talking about 8 hrs a month or so. That could easily be a 4-hour oneway trip plus return. Whether it's for business people getting to meetings, athletes getting to sporting events, etc, there are indeed great reasons to own. Especially if these meetings etc generate revenue on their own and add to the top line.
I did some math in post #15 behind the 75-100 hrs/yr. This is for used jets.
Comparing flying first class to private aviation is apples to oranges, not to mention "first class" in the domestic routes is really business class amenities on the international routes. Private aviation gives you access to a lot more airports (eg. Teterboro in NJ), and you can show up 10 minutes prior to with little to no security checks. Also you can be a lot more productive on a private flight with privacy.
Comparing flying first class to private aviation is apples to oranges, not to mention "first class" in the domestic routes is really business class amenities on the international routes. Private aviation gives you access to a lot more airports (eg. Teterboro in NJ), and you can show up 10 minutes prior to with little to no security checks. Also you can be a lot more productive on a private flight with privacy.
I was just watching Citation videos earlier yesteday and ran across a video explaining that the new winglets that can be purchased for the X and that they can be installed for a whopping $600k!!!
IMO it would be worth it because damn.... haha
![Image]()
(my current background pic on my nexus)
![Image]()
(bigger version)
http://i.imgur.com/Jqtjo5O.jpg
Just imagine....
![Image]()
IMO it would be worth it because damn.... haha
(my current background pic on my nexus)
(bigger version)
http://i.imgur.com/Jqtjo5O.jpg
Just imagine....
Wow I appreciate everyone who contributed to much info. I learned alot, really. It is clear that chartering is more wise in most situations.
It doesn't make any sense to compare commercial flight travel to private flight travel, whether on economic or experience terms... Only the biggest companies - fortune 100/200 size could ever justify on the economics, as usage is high, speed and flexibility is important, and the people traveling on them are really highly paid... Anyone else isn't making the decision to fly private (card or ownership) based on economics, but based solely on convenience, privacy, etc...
Our company has 2 planes and a flight department with 15ish people and we had to get a net jet contract to cover overflow when planes weren't available, and used 150ish hrs on it last year... They get used a lot, and are an asset, making it really easy to justify the cost of ownership...
We bought a card to use outside of the company planes, and determined it's about lifestyle not economics... The analysis we did was on a card for the Ultra XLS and another on a Sovereign... It was cheaper to fly the entire family 8-10 people first class, round-trip, for every trip than the card...
Our company has 2 planes and a flight department with 15ish people and we had to get a net jet contract to cover overflow when planes weren't available, and used 150ish hrs on it last year... They get used a lot, and are an asset, making it really easy to justify the cost of ownership...
We bought a card to use outside of the company planes, and determined it's about lifestyle not economics... The analysis we did was on a card for the Ultra XLS and another on a Sovereign... It was cheaper to fly the entire family 8-10 people first class, round-trip, for every trip than the card...
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