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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Info on the SIINH15 as used by Lum-Tec.

This is my original and now edited post as we have since learned what the cause of the second sweep issue is on the Sii NH15.

I honestly don't see any hesitation of the second hand sweep in my personal B13. Unless it's so minor that I am just not picking up on it. It's nothing at all like the movement of the second hand on a quartz type movement. As some have likened it to.

This leads me to believe this is not an issue in most cases. Especially since I have only seen about seven people. Out of all the various forums etc. Which have reported on it thus far.

This is a fairly new movement for SII (Though it may well be based on an existing Seiko movement. I do know it does not seem to be based on the 7S36 or 4205-4207 family. As some people on other forums seem to think. I have looked at the spec's such as the physical size of those movements and the NH15 and those others just don't match up.). I feel it's really too early to make any blanket statements or pass judgment on the movement as a whole at this time.

As Chris is on vacation until the 17th and will not be able to look into this till he gets back. I will personally hold off on making any conclusions about this particular movement, or the situation as a whole.

I have also seen there is some confusion out there regarding the SIINH15 in general. Which is being used on many of the 2010 Lum-Tec models.

The SIINH15 can be hand wound. Also for those of you with watch winders. The movement winds in both directions. Due to the inclusion of the "Magic Lever" one way clutch feature (Yes several other Seiko movements have this. But I point it out as Sii in their literature makes a point of these features.).



You can see the whole image here.

http://watchandclockforum.com/images/nh15.png

I have asked for some additional info from SII regarding the movement. Such as what if any regular Seiko movement this is based on. There seems to be much speculation on the net as to which movement that might be. I would really love to know from the horses mouth what the movement is based on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well you can pretty well disregard much of my original post.

What's been found is that about 15% of the movements have/had (As now many have been corrected this issue).

An issue with the tension on a spring that needed to be tweaked a bit. Apparently this spring is part of the portion of the movement which drives the second hand. When Chris gets back from his vacation (Which I am guessing was not much of a vacation at all with this issue.) I am sure he will be able to explain this all a whole lot better than I can.

I understand that many of the watches with this issue were corrected in many cases on the same day the watches were received at Lum-Tec then over nighted back to the customer.

Interesting to note is this issue in and of itself. Does not seem to effect accuracy. A good example is serial number 007 which exhibits the sweep issue ever so slightly (In fact the owner is in no rush to send it back in for correction though I am sure he will at some point.) Was only losing something like half a second in the 25 hours the owner had been checking the watches accuracy.

I know of just one person that sent in his watch for accuracy thus far. Which has the sweep issue. Though apparently the sweep issue was minor enough. That the customer was really sending the watch in more for the accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
On a more upbeat note.

I have just gotten and interesting bit of info from a B Combat owner about the NH15.

"I thought that you'd like to know that the NH15J "hacks" if you hold
the crown steady when setting the time. It's not a "true" hacking
mechanism, but the second hand does stop when setting the time. A
pleasant discovery!"
 

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On a more upbeat note.

I have just gotten and interesting bit of info from a B Combat owner about the NH15.

"I thought that you'd like to know that the NH15J "hacks" if you hold
the crown steady when setting the time. It's not a "true" hacking
mechanism, but the second hand does stop when setting the time. A
pleasant discovery!"
So, he's allowed to stop the second hand (when its not supposed to) if holding it in a certain position in a movement that is already having proven issues? I wouldn't call that a pleasant discovery. I mean I like those that hack; but if its not supposed to, maybe it shouldn't; or maybe its another symptom of a sick (and I don't mean good) movement. Just like if I had a movement that was supposed to hack and didn't. I dunno. Sounds like a minor catastrophe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So, he's allowed to stop the second hand (when its not supposed to) if holding it in a certain position in a movement that is already having proven issues? I wouldn't call that a pleasant discovery. I mean I like those that hack; but if its not supposed to, maybe it shouldn't; or maybe its another symptom of a sick (and I don't mean good) movement. Just like if I had a movement that was supposed to hack and didn't. I dunno. Sounds like a minor catastrophe.
Don't know Blair but I do know he has the most accurate example I know of currently. He is losing less than a second in 25 hours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just tried it on my B13 which does not have the sweep issue that I have seen. I have found that I can set the time then just barely back up the crown and the second hand will briefly stop. At this point I don't know if this good or bad. Another point I will be waiting to hear about from Chris.
 

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Heres the technical pdf for the movement.
http://www.timemodule.com/sii/pdf/nh15a.pdf
accuracy?not really.-35/+55 seconds a day.
its a 21,600vph,with handwinding,and non hacking.Also
noted with this movement is not rotating the hands ccw.The second hand will also reverse.The nh15 and ne 25 both do this.miyota,
eta,and most movements can be turned ccw to set the time back
or foreward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Yes I know what the .pdf says. I also know what the results have been in the field. They have been a lot more accurate than the .pdf would indicate. Thus far the most accurate is losing less than a second in 24 hours.

Most are at about -5 to -10 in 24 hours. Do you recall where I stated it was a COSC movement? You know when you talk about things which you don't even personally own. Then how do you really know what the reality is?

Also big duh that most movements can be set by turning the crown either way. Did I say this was somehow special as it could be set forward or revers? NO I DID NOT. I just said if you set the time then barley and I mean barley turn the crown back it can briefly stop the second hand.

Have I ever actually said this was really a super duper special movement? NO
 

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As far as what we are told from the suppliers, the NH15 is a new movement. They test and time really well. We are tuning to +/- 5 seconds/day or better average. The issue we are seeing with a few are the seconds wheel is slipping. This is not actually effecting timing at all! Only the position of the seconds hand. The Seiko techs found the issue to be a small friction spring that should be straight is slightly curved on some causing the skipping condition. I had our guys pull all stock and they found 13 of them total with this issue. What happens is the spring is not providing tension to keep the seconds wheel gear alligned and it is skipping teeth. The watch will show perfect timing and running even with this condition on the machines. We basicly have to visually watch the seconds hands to be sure they are smooth all the way around to know if they have a faulty spring. There is no way to tell on the machines in testing without watching the sweep on each watch. I feel bad that we missed this as we normally run them on our machines for a few days and test/adjust timing but the sweep is not something we normally look at for long as it is not something i have never seen to vary on a movement. The design is a bit different from the normal. This is something new to our watchmaking staff and now we know exactly what to check and how to adjust. The adjustment takes about 6-7 minutes only as it is very simple to complete. If any more have this condition just shoot [email protected] an email and we will send a pre-paid postage label to send in for adjustment. We should not have your watch for more than a few days. All stock has been checked and adjusted as needed. The movement is really good and durable. Timing is excellent! Seiko does not time them better than 30-45 seconds/day but after we adjust them they are running +/- 5 or better. As far as the backwards hacking, many mechanical movements stop if adjusted or held in reverse, which generally is not a good idea to try on a mechanical movement. I personally do not think it would do any harm but i could be wrong.
 

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Yes I know what the .pdf says. I also know what the results have been in the field. They have been a lot more accurate than the .pdf would indicate. Thus far the most accurate is losing less than a second in 24 hours.

Most are at about -5 to -10 in 24 hours. Do you recall where I stated it was a COSC movement? You know when you talk about things which you don't even personally own. Then how do you really know what the reality is?

Also big duh that most movements can be set by turning the crown either way. Did I say this was somehow special as it could be set forward or revers? NO I DID NOT. I just said if you set the time then barley and I mean barley turn the crown back it can briefly stop the second hand.

Have I ever actually said this was really a super duper special movement? NO
after your post,Ray states that seiko does not time them better than
30-45 seconds a day,but ray adjusts them to +/- 5 seconds a day.
With this movement and all of the 7s26/36,ne and nh calibers,you go by the technical specs.its up to the watch company owner,in this case,Ray,to adjust them to his own specs.

And no,you didn't state they were cosc movements.just because you noted that they are running within cosc? well heck,thank ray for adjusting them.That certainly explains why these particular movements are showing good accuracy.But unadjusted,then its -35+50 per day.
As far as your attitude,you do this on a number of other forums.
I come here to share what I've learned and post up alot of watches.
You come here and spend your time pushing watches.You do this on other forums also and have gotten wacked for it.
Have a nice day.
 
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