What goes into owning an aircraft? - Page 2

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 46
Like Tree28Likes

Thread: What goes into owning an aircraft?

          
   
  1. #11
    adanmtxt1's Avatar
    adanmtxt1 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    tha US
    Posts
    2,635

    Default

    I just have to say how struck I am by the costs associated with owning aircraft, delineated by flyinglakland. That is no joke.
    my Hidden Content page
    Hidden Content Very photogenic!
    You had me at Darth Vader.
    - Dotre

  2. #12
    One_Percent's Avatar
    One_Percent is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ohio - S. Florida
    Posts
    869

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushn'lbs View Post
    "If it floats, flies, or f____, it's cheaper to rent..."
    See signature below. lol
    unitix and Pushn'lbs like this.
    If it Floats, Flies or F**ks, Rent it.

  3. #13
    TheYoungConnoisseur's Avatar
    TheYoungConnoisseur is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where's my 100fter?
    Posts
    1,812

    Default

    I forgot who was running the promotion but it was "put $1M on your sky card and get a free bentley CGT"

    No matter how much money you have unless you are in the air as much as a normal person is in a car, id rent one vs even having one thought about maintenance or other hassles

    ~ Granturismo S
    ~ V12 Vanquish
    ~ Hummer H1
    ~ Mv Agusta F3 Race Bike

  4. Remove Advertisements
    Luxury4Play.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #14
    unitix's Avatar
    unitix is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    739

    Default

    You from the research I've been doing in the past couple months, it is no doubt that I've ran into colleagues in the past that rented.

    And man the quote "If it floats, flies, or f____, it's cheaper to rent..." couldn't be any more true lol..
    "Remember who's putting bread on whose table"

  6. #15
    tommywcom is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    14

    Talking

    I own a humble 6-seat twin-engine piston plane - Piper Seneca ($150/hr on fuel alone), and have been flying for more than 10 years. It's not in the jet world, but I have some appreciation of the magnitude of costs involved.

    Like exotic cars, the price tag of the plane itself is just the cost of entry. I think a rule of thumb is around 5-10% a year in operating costs. The big items with jets are the A/B/C/D/E/F/G inspections which are mandatory and come into play based on usage (ie. hours) and calendar time.

    The following gives you some idea of the actual costs involved:
    www.sijet.com/download/13Phase_Hawker800.pdf‎

    The 800 is 1980 era, whereas the 800XP are late 90's and up. You can pick up a an 800XP starting at around $2m. The worst item in the maintenance lists is around $60K for every 5 years, but you would also be dropping $10K-20K every year or so along the way for the other items. Plus parts. Picking up a "bargain" used jet usually means the big maintenance item(s) have been deferred and are required right away.

    Then there is fuel. The 800XP burns about 250 gal/hr (although it's usually specified in weight per hour but piston pilots deal with gal/hr). At $5.50/gal, you'd be looking at about $1500 per hour. So a typical 3-hour oneway trip would be $9000 for the round trip. This is why charter starts at around $3000/hr in order for them to make any money after overheads.

    And as someone has pointed out, no one owns a jet unless they fly a lot (otherwise it makes even less financial sense). So to fly the minimum 100 hrs a year - fuel cost would be $150K per year.

    Hangar storage at a full service FBO for my plane is $2K / month. For a small jet which takes up more space than mine, I would estimate $3K per month or about $40K per year.

    So all in all, maintenance / fuel / hangar add up to around $200K per year. Throw in say part time contract pilot + FlightSafety recurrent training, you'd be up to $300K per year excluding insurance.

    My figures are in-line with Flyinglakland's - mine are a bit on the low side but as they say YMMV.

    $300K per year on a $2m jet seems high at 15%, but brand new the same jet costs quite a lot more, and maintenance and parts costs are really about the same on either brand-new or used jets. So the same $300K on a $8m brand-new jet would be more "acceptable".

    There is no doubt that dabbling in aviation makes exotic car ownership seem like a bargain

  7. #16
    tommywcom is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    14

    Default

    BTW, all the jet card programs seem expensive on the surface - starting at $100K for 25 hrs (or $4K/hr). But once you look at the cost to run a jet for a year, $100K again seems like a bargain.

    Comparing to the jet card programs, the breakeven point seems to be at about 75 hrs per year of usage based on my calculation above. This all makes sense to support the rule of thumb of 100 hr / year minimum in order to justify any kind of plane ownership - including mine =) If you don't fly at least 100 hr / year, you don't have to tie up capital in the plane (or pay interest), and you don't have to worry about surprises.

    One of my dreams is to give away jet cards to friends and family. Talk about a perfect gift. One day ....

  8. #17
    t0pgear's Avatar
    t0pgear is offline Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SF/LA/Colorado
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Legal costs associated with ownership are huge as well. Typically a company must be formed around the aircraft/flight department, and a host of certifications and filings need to be completed with the FAA etc. As previously mentioned a good accountant is also required to handle $20,000+ fuel bills at the pump.... Some FBO's don't accept credit cards, but all I can say is for those that do, if you ever needed to fly commercial you'd have no problems getting a first class ticket using credit card points/miles
    tommywcom likes this.

  9. #18
    cessna208vip is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I think you need a pilot license or two pilots. When you have them you need to look for an aircraft, what about an Embraer 195? Then you need a home Airport to buy a hangar or rent one. It is important to have a lot of storage. Greetings from Germany

  10. #19
    dc350 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvaderMoose View Post
    Get a helicopter, I bet it would be way more fun. I really want to get a license to fly one
    Depending on the helicopter, they usually have terrible range.

  11. #20
    tommywcom is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Helicopters are definitely more fun. To me, fixed-wing is like skiing, whereas helicopter is like snowboarding. Snowboarding is somewhat "harder" because you only have one edge to work with at any given time vs 2 with skis (and hence the bigger wipe-outs). And there are very few transferable skills going from one to the other.

    I have flown the Robinson R22 a number of times when I was trying to get my rotary rating - but I got side-tracked and it didn't happen.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

You MUST be 18 years or OLDER to Register for Luxury4Play. By selecting "Yes", you are performing a legal acknowledgment that you are 18 years of age or older.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by scoobie.com.