Thread: Viper Modding

Originally Posted by CDubb

It will cost you $10K+ for Motec then add in install and tuning.

I can buy a new M800 (will do 12 cyl group fire, like the M880) for around $5K...

I understand your point of it costs more than perhaps I originally suggested (Motec is the gold standard)... I guess I did fire that off quick, but I am a DIY guy when it comes to my projects, so honestly skipped over the costs associated with install (+ building a harness from a flying lead set)/tuning (I do have experience BTW, not suggesting I just buy a Motec unit and think I am going to tune it well overnight), so point taken.

MATH
-------
M800 ~$5000
P-N-P Viper Harness ~$4000
Flying Lead Harness ~$1000
Install $$$
Tuning $$$

You can also add in Haltech or Electromotive into that discussion for that price range too

I guess I have always thought of AEM as a cheap SEM solution but it's been a few years since I have kept up on it, so perhaps it has changed now and is a much more robust package compared to what it used to be... it isn't the first SEM that comes to mind when I think about running a Viper V10 standalone.

Originally Posted by Race Minded

I can buy a new M800 (will do 12 cyl group fire, like the M880) for around $5K...

I understand your point of it costs more than perhaps I originally suggested (Motec is the gold standard)... I guess I did fire that off quick, but I am a DIY guy when it comes to my projects, so honestly skipped over the costs associated with install (+ building a harness from a flying lead set)/tuning (I do have experience BTW, not suggesting I just buy a Motec unit and think I am going to tune it well overnight), so point taken.

MATH
-------
M800 ~$5000
P-N-P Viper Harness ~$4000
Flying Lead Harness ~$1000
Install $$$
Tuning $$$

You can also add in Haltech or Electromotive into that discussion for that price range too

I guess I have always thought of AEM as a cheap SEM solution but it's been a few years since I have kept up on it, so perhaps it has changed now and is a much more robust package compared to what it used to be... it isn't the first SEM that comes to mind when I think about running a Viper V10 standalone.

Yeah it was mainly the Viper harness that tacked on the $$$, add in traction control and knock module per JRR theres another few grand. LOL I will agree with you the AEM is at the bottom of the list with what's out there today. I will say too that AEMs track record in the Viper market wasn't that great, they just happen to be the only thing available for standalone.

I don't think AEM ever purported their original EMS to be anything other than what it was, an entry-level EMS. I certainly agree that a MoTeC or Haltech is an entirely more competent EMS, but at a much greater price tag.

Folks like John Reed recognized the need for a Viper EMS, but they also recognized that few people would be willing to pay $15-20k for the real-deal, race-ready EMS solution.

So, in order to keep costs down and cater to a broader swath of customers, a less expensive but nonetheless capable EMS was chosen to defray the cost of the custom wiring harness and tuning.

Now then, the AEM EMS Series 2 made some significant improvements and the Infinity has a lot of well-respected names talking. I am not an AEM fanboy, just an enthusiast who believes competition advances progress.


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Originally Posted by Turbology

I don't think AEM ever purported their original EMS to be anything other than what it was, an entry-level EMS. I certainly agree that a MoTeC or Haltech is an entirely more competent EMS, but at a much greater price tag.

Folks like John Reed recognized the need for a Viper EMS, but they also recognized that few people would be willing to pay $15-20k for the real-deal, race-ready EMS solution.

So, in order to keep costs down and cater to a broader swath of customers, a less expensive but nonetheless capable EMS was chosen to defray the cost of the custom wiring harness and tuning.

Point well made To counter, when I think of typical market I am speaking to (and as a result the buyer) of a Viper, "entry-level" does not come to mind, the car has always been north of $65-70K and considered a specialty vehicle (aka not a DD). However, if John Reed identified a new market at a specific price point, so be it, who am I to argue that... the buyers have spoken! HA

Originally Posted by Turbology

Now then, the AEM EMS Series 2 made some significant improvements and the Infinity has a lot of well-respected names talking. I am not an AEM fanboy, just an enthusiast who believes competition advances progress.

Your last few words I highlighted in bold.... I completely and 100% agree! I think my mistake here was firing off too quickly in my original response TBH.

The essence of what I wanted to get across was for north of $3K your starting to come awefully close to more capable SEM solutions that provide a much better overall setup. I haven't checked prices as of yet, but maybe someone can confirm for me... out of the 4 I have mentioned soo far, let's take out the Motec leaving 3.... Autronic, Haltech and Electromotive. I know they are not as expensive as the Motec units which puts them in between the Motec and AEM... that is not a big span. So if my speculation is correct (big IF depending on current pricing which I do not have ATM), the others could well land awefully close to the AEM.

My train of thought is if your going to go through all the trouble of setting an SEM up in your vehicle, wiring etc... maybe it is worth the relatively (again assuming my speculation is correct) small price increase to not be locked in some entry-level unit with limited options/capability. After all you are driving a Viper

Agreed on all accounts. I think what happened was this: the price of Vipers started to "drop", so people started to get bolder with modifying them for even more power. Since those two things occurred almost simultaneously, there was immediate demand for an EMS. Since the AEM was "simpler" and cheaper than the other big names, it was easiest (and fastest) to develop that first.

I think you're right though. If you're going to buy a Viper, it's not enough to just have the car, you have to take into account the subsequent logistical costs of ownership such as maintenance and modifications. As the saying goes, gotta pay to play. The cost is highly variable, though, relative to one's own mechanical prowess and abilities as you mentioned.

I think a good concurrent example is the development of FR-S/BRZ turbo kits. The first one out makes small power gains at 4psi. Do those minimal gains justify the cost? Practically, no. But, there has been huge demand for an off-the-shelf kit, so a tuner stepped up to bring the first one to market, efficacy be damned.

Im thinking of getting the corsa exhaust and a K&N typhoon for my 08. Hopefully it will make the car sound a bit better, not necessarily louder

Plus 1 for pics!

Yeah, I heard that computer is locked up

Originally Posted by SlingFly

Yeah, I heard that computer is locked up

O rly? That would be a kick in the pants to the manufacturer's bottom line I would think... it would curb their sales to lockout tuners in that fashion! (you are referring to Turbology's comments on the FRS or the Viper for clarification?)