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06-02-2012, 04:47 PM #11
Forgot to add a couple of other points to my post. All things being equal, an executive without a college degree will get paid less than an executive who has a college degree or better. Companies and HR departments will use that as a bargaining tool when presented with the opportunity. I've witnessed it on several occasions and anecdotally. I knew a former client who had a tough time getting hired after the company he was at was acquired by a Fortune 50 company. He was the first to be purged at his management level, and it was widely agreed within the company that his lack of a college degree was not well-received amongst the acquiring company. It took him awhile to get an offer for a job at a similar management level elsewhere, and clients of mine who are closer to him advised he had to accept an offer at the absolute low-end of the range for that career level.
One of my clients who is a VP has flat out told me that he doesn't mind hiring sys admins who don't have college degrees, as he is always able to hire them at a lower salary level than their peers with college degrees. He finds they're also more loyal and are less likely to move on, with the implication being that they know there's less demand for them in the job market.When I'm not here, I'm slinging IT infrastructure or gone golfing
2007 E550 - the DD
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06-04-2012, 02:43 AM #12
06-04-2012, 02:15 PM #13
Certainly, the likelihood to get a career started with a business degree is far higher. However, the market is saturated in that area.
In my opinion, a degree means far less than it did in the past. Degrees are fairly easy to obtain; I mean, an educational institute is essentially a business too so I don’t blame them.
Of course, most corporate (particularly C-level) positions require a degree. But I’m not talking with regards to getting a jobs with ‘the man’.
A huge misconception that most youth have is the expectation that they will become employed by a company. I’m a huge believer in entrepreneurship; particularly among the Millennial generation. There are a few reasons why I support becoming self-employed:
1. Job satisfaction – The job satisfaction rate is something like 87%; sure it could be worse but self-employed people tend to enjoy work far more. As Harvey MacKay famously said, “Find something you love to do, and you’ll never work a day in your life.”
2. Anti-corporate attitude – Millennials are the largest demographic that supports Occupy Wall Street. This generation tends to have a distaste of corporate life. (Refer to number 4 here)
3. Numbers – If you have a degree and there are no relevant job postings, the only three options are to stay unemployed and keep hunting, work in an underqualified job, or become self-employed and do something more relevant.
06-04-2012, 04:59 PM #14
Many companies have cut the fat and learned to survive without positions they dont need. Those un-needed jobs are not going to come back. Why would they? Companies have learned to live without them. Why would a company bring back a job they dont need? Many kids look down on jobs that are skilled workers. But many of those are the jobs that are needed. Many companies say they need engineers. Some even say they would take them even if they didnt need them at that moment simply because they are in high demand.
Many kids say they want a job that makes them feel good or a job they are passionate about. That all sounds good but in reality is there a job for every persons passion? If kids are going to get tied down with so much student debt wouldnt it be better to get a degree that actually helps them make money rather than something that makes them feel good? I mean it takes money to pay bills not feelings.
I saw Mark Cuban posted about that same issue a while back...
Dont Follow Your Passion, Follow Your Effort
Mark Cuban Mar 18th 2012 2:47PM
I hear it all the time from people. “I’m passionate about it.” “I’m not going to quit, It’s my passion”. Or I hear it as advice to students and others “Follow your passion”.
What a bunch of BS. ”Follow Your Passion” is easily the worst advice you could ever give or get.
Why ? Because everyone is passionate about something. Usually more than 1 thing. We are born with it. There are always going to be things we love to do. That we dream about doing. That we really really want to do with our lives. Those passions aren’t worth a nickel.
Think about all the things you have been passionate about in your life. Think about all those passions that you considered making a career out of or building a company around. How many were/are there ? Why did you bounce from one to another ? Why were you not able to make a career or business out of any of those passions ? Or if you have been able to have some success, what was the key to the success.? Was it the passion or the effort you put in to your job or company ?
If you really want to know where you destiny lies, look at where you apply your time.
Time is the most valuable asset you don’t own. You may or may not realize it yet, but how you use or don’t use your time is going to be the best indication of where your future is going to take you .
Let me make this as clear as possible
1. When you work hard at something you become good at it.
2. When you become good at doing something, you will enjoy it more.
3. When you enjoy doing something, there is a very good chance you will become passionate or more passionate about it
4. When you are good at something, passionate and work even harder to excel and be the best at it, good things happen.
Don’t follow your passions, follow your effort. It will lead you to your passions and to success, however you define it.
Last edited by JR3; 06-04-2012 at 05:51 PM.
06-04-2012, 05:31 PM #15
Last edited by JR3; 06-04-2012 at 06:07 PM.
06-04-2012, 06:14 PM #16
06-04-2012, 10:28 PM #17
The U.S.has stopped valuing skilled workers such as plumbers, electricians etc.
I remember in Germany (where i used to live) there was absolutely no shame associated with being a plumber or a skilled worker like that, my recent visit in Austria as well confirmed that belief of mine. It feels like in the U.S. that students are being shamed that if they don't do well they will end up being a plumber, factory worker etc. and instead being made to think that getting some useless arts degree will help them more in life. It is completely wrong to create the belief that skilled worker=poor grades. I believe one of the reasons of the high standards of living in many European countries, is that Europeans are more satisfied with what they are doing. Being a plumber or a cashier was not something people looked at with contempt even in the rich neighborhoods I grew up. America needs more skilled workers. We are effectively alienating the skilled workers who are necessary in our society.
Another huge downfall we have is the lack of a proper Math and Science education. I'll be the first to state that I am very bad at both subjects. But I believe that are integral parts of the curriculum. The teachers currently teaching these subjects in the U.S. are mostly NOT QUALIFIED to even teach Math or Science. How can we expect our students to actually understand the subjects at a good pace when the TEACHERS cannot understand it? In a practical sense if manufacturing was going to return to the U.S. we would not have enough engineers to staff these operations. Am I the only one who thinks that is ridiculous for a 1st world country? We are simply not competitive with countries like China, Brazil or other developing nations. Instead of telling kids that they should get any degree like music history, women's studies or arts degree encourage them to pick up a trade, or a skill or learn entrepreneurship. It's wonderful if they like Music but instead of blowing money on an music history degree encourage them to create instruments, start a music shop, open a recording studio. What America needs is a strong industry, it is necessary,nay VITAL for the economy. Industries and factories create jobs of all kinds and all skills. It is a double sided blade, Americans need to accept that for a strong economy with strong jobs to be created they need to pay more for their stupid knick knacks. They gotta be paying 30 dollars more for their iPods, 50-100 dollars more for their TV's.
We feel so entitled now these days, we just expect to get a job once we finish college. It just doesn't work that way. Working a trade is nothing to be ashamed of. It should be something that people should be proud of.
06-08-2012, 05:22 AM #18
My inlaws look at me with disgust when I tell them I want my kids to get into skilled trade and not go to college. Electricians, plumbers, millwrights, welders, etc are going to still be needed in 100 years. With little entry and a lot of retirement into those professions, that bubble will collapse. Hard.
People have more money than motivation these days. I just turned 31 last month but I remember when I was maybe 5 or 6 and going to Grandpa's house, him and Grandma would have a half of a pig on the kitchen table quartered while the other half was being cut and wrapped for the freezer. You didn't go to the grocery store for meat, you went to a butcher. You could buy cuts of meat or sections of an animal that you took home, made your cuts, wrapped and froze for later. The farmer's market was for fruits and vegetables, the butcher was for meats, and the store had your household needs.