Thread: Fractional Ownership/Jet Cards

The "jet cards" which are basically just buying block charter time are generally egregiously over priced. The price per hour on a GIV on a Marquis card is approaching $15k when the actual operating cost is somewhere around $3,500 to $4,000, including fuel, MSP, reserves and pilots. Going through a charter broker can get you pricing pretty close to those numbers being that margins in the charter are very slim as of recently.

Originally Posted by Phantom

The price per hour on a GIV on a Marquis card is approaching $15k when the actual operating cost is somewhere around $3,500 to $4,000, including fuel, MSP, reserves and pilots.

The fuel burn on a Gulfstream-IV is around 700 gallons till it reaches cruising altitude, which takes 1 hr, now at Jet-A price of 5.80, that is a little over $4,000. Than once it enters cruise, it burns around 450 gallons, which is the equivalent of $2500. However, a G4 cost around $40 million, now in 25 years the resale value will be around $7,000,000 (not accounting for inflation). That means, each airframe hour cost around $2500 if there are 14000 hours on it. Now you have 2 pilots, captain and 1st office, who start at a combined salary of close to $200,000 and can go over $250,000, if they fly 900 hours a year, that is another $250 per flight hour. G4 typically come with a cabin crew member and you then have maintenance on the plane, inspections, hangering it, landing fees, terminal fees, cleaning fees. Lets not forget the catering expenses, phone and internet fee's. Since Gulfstreams IV are generally used for long haul flights they don't always return to home base and that requires the crew to be put up in hotels and ramp fees for the plane. At sometime the plane is going need an overhaul to update the interior, electronics, and engines as well as have the exterior repainted during that 25 year period. Lastly, Marquis doesn't charge reposition or deadhead fee's, so there are hours that plane is being relocated which needs to be taken into account.

Originally Posted by SMW

The fuel burn on a Gulfstream-IV is around 700 gallons till it reaches cruising altitude, which takes 1 hr, now at Jet-A price of 5.80, that is a little over $4,000. Than once it enters cruise, it burns around 450 gallons, which is the equivalent of $2500. However, a G4 cost around $40 million, now in 25 years the resale value will be around $7,000,000 (not accounting for inflation). That means, each airframe hour cost around $2500 if there are 14000 hours on it. Now you have 2 pilots, captain and 1st office, who start at a combined salary of close to $200,000 and can go over $250,000, if they fly 900 hours a year, that is another $250 per flight hour. G4 typically come with a cabin crew member and you then have maintenance on the plane, inspections, hangering it, landing fees, terminal fees, cleaning fees. Lets not forget the catering expenses, phone and internet fee's. Since Gulfstreams IV are generally used for long haul flights they don't always return to home base and that requires the crew to be put up in hotels and ramp fees for the plane. At sometime the plane is going need an overhaul to update the interior, electronics, and engines as well as have the exterior repainted during that 25 year period. Lastly, Marquis doesn't charge reposition or deadhead fee's, so there are hours that plane is being relocated which needs to be taken into account.

Yep you're right Marquis doesn't charge deadheads but I can tell you if you have a good broker you can charter a GIV for $4,500 all day long and if you're a little flexible on dates he can probably fill that dead head. And you can pick up a strait GIV non SP for around $5.5mil. And Jet A if you buy in bulk is around $4-4.50 per gallon. From a consumer standpoint chartering is a bargain and MUCH more competitive than any card program, from a business standpoint its a nightmare. AND btw I can find first officers that will fly for FREE just to build time so you're way off on that salary figure. Pilots are cheaper than bus drivers these days.

Originally Posted by Phantom

I can tell you if you have a good broker you can charter a GIV for $4,500 all day long and if you're a little flexible on dates he can probably fill that dead head. And you can pick up a strait GIV non SP for around $5.5mil. And Jet A if you buy in bulk is around $4-4.50 per gallon. From a consumer standpoint chartering is a bargain and MUCH more competitive than any card program, from a business standpoint its a nightmare. AND btw I can find first officers that will fly for FREE just to build time so you're way off on that salary figure. Pilots are cheaper than bus drivers these days.

Show me the charter of a G-IV for $4,500, I haven't ever seen a non-dead head for less than $8,000 a hr. You might be able to get a deadhead for $4,500, hell I have seen deadheads for free. What year G-IV are you seeing for $5.5, mid 80's, no thanks I'll take a newer model with the more fuel efficient rolls royce engines? For pilots, my data isn't off at all, it comes directly from Net Jets.

Yes I am sure using connections, friends, favors, and deals its possible to get a G-IV flown at a cost of $4,500, not going be convenient, regular, scalable, or feasible.

Originally Posted by SMW

Show me the charter of a G-IV for $4,500, I haven't ever seen a non-dead head for less than $8,000 a hr. You might be able to get a deadhead for $4,500, hell I have seen deadheads for free. What year G-IV are you seeing for $5.5, mid 80's, no thanks I'll take a newer model with the more fuel efficient rolls royce engines? For pilots, my data isn't off at all, it comes directly from Net Jets.

Yes I am sure using connections, friends, favors, and deals its possible to get a G-IV flown at a cost of $4,500, not going be convenient, regular, scalable, or feasible.

Hey out of curiosity SMW what kind of airplane do you own? Call any charter broker and start getting quotes. Just because they "ask" $8k an hr doesn't mean they're getting it. And ALL GIVs have the same Rolls Royce engines the 611-8s. And really, your pilot data isnt off just because you pulled it from Netjets website who is trying to justify their obscene pricing? I have been in the aviation business for 11 years. Trust me your data is way off.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Hey out of curiosity SMW what kind of airplane do you own? Call any charter broker and start getting quotes. Just because they "ask" $8k an hr doesn't mean they're getting it. And ALL GIVs have the same Rolls Royce engines the 611-8s. And really, your pilot data isnt off just because you pulled it from Netjets website who is trying to justify their obscene pricing? I have been in the aviation business for 11 years. Trust me your data is way off.

I don't own a plane. Originally the G-IV had the Tay-610, but the name was switched to Tay-611, I was unaware that they were the same engine. I don't think my data is off for large scale operations like NetJets, I am sure small nimble companies can operate charter for less than NetJets.

i have a friend who works for jetsuite, they fly smaller planes (4 people) phenom 100's for about $3750/hr and they have discount flights for their empty legs for about $500 it's a STEAL. it's a life saver when you're avoiding that helluva drive to vegas!

for 100k, I can provide you with 25 hours on a H400XP. Not to mention very aggressive pricing to and from the EU.

Here.... so you kids can stop quoting variable marketing data from different websites, here is the C&D side by side of the 3, 4, and 5.
This should put the numbers to rest of what it costs to own, operate and maintain. This is industry standard data. This isn't marketing bullshit or makeup numbers. Check C&D's site for more info.

http://www.uploadho.com/!/1335499217.pdf

I researched this a little and I ended up liking citation air as it is owned by Cessna and uses Cessna planes so basically the manufacturer is doing all the service and that made me feel warm and fuzzy.